nutrients

[kochab]

so when I get my taxes back here soon Ill have the money I need to get some more nutes for my grow.
Ive been thinking of switching to AN from the Gh3part.
Going to pick up some Pk13-14 from canna as well as some hygrozyme for me roots.

Is there a difference between brands of fulvic and humic acids or does anyone know of a good thing to go with for those?

I was going to check into some mycorrhizae bacteria for my soil and ran across this stuff, seems like it may have more than one just one kind of bacteria in there to help out anyone here tried it?
Its called "Oregonism XL"
http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp....63&navid=18 (http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=563&navid=18)

and has anyone tried out Earth Juice's "Catalyst"?
http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp....46&navid=18 (http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=246&navid=18)

[greenacres]

ya ive used earth juice before in soilless.
great stuff

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (greenacres @ Jan 30 2009, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78300)</div>
ya ive used earth juice before in soilless.
great stuff[/b]


but did you use the catalyst product specifically?

this is why I was looking @ it


Earth Juice Catalyst promotes compact growth. This versatile & vital product offers an array of natural occurring enzymes, hormones, vitamins, amino acids, nutrients, sugars, plant acids & surfactants

[tom crudes]

I use Organicare's Fulvex and Humex for fulvic and humic acids

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Jan 30 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78316)</div>
I use Organicare's Fulvex and Humex for fulvic and humic acids[/b]


cool, have you ever tried another brand?

[tom crudes]

nope, I used in both soil, soiless/hydro

[tkna]

Botanicare/Organicare recommended from me!

i will be changing over from FF's.... seen results with Botanicare and very impressed

[TorturedZen]

Botanicare Liquid Karma works for me. The Earth Juice Catalyst sounds very similar.
Ingredients (http://www.goldcoasthydro.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product430.html)

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TorturedZen @ Jan 31 2009, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78381)</div>
Botanicare Liquid Karma works for me. The Earth Juice Catalyst sounds very similar.
Ingredients (http://www.goldcoasthydro.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product430.html)[/b]


thanks tz I think Ill go with that instead as Ill actually know whats in the stuff. Seems to be for the same purpose by what is in it as well as more well rounded.

[redman]

Im looking at earth juice catyltst as a booster in flower for my organic trial.Will be Using bat guano,MET Bloom,sweet leaf and diamond nector. The Diamond Nector by GH is an excelent source of Fulvic and Humic acids,

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redman @ Jan 31 2009, 06:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78421)</div>
Im looking at earth juice catyltst as a booster in flower for my organic trial.Will be Using bat guano,MET Bloom,sweet leaf and diamond nector. The Diamond Nector by GH is an excelent source of Fulvic and Humic acids,[/b]

Cool Let me know how well it works when youve decided.
Ill check out the pricing on the diamond nector.

[tom crudes]

I lied Kochab I use LK too, pretty nice stuff....woops. Although the price is a bit high now at least at my shop. When my gallon is gone I might not replace it.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Jan 31 2009, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78431)</div>
I lied Kochab I use LK too, pretty nice stuff....woops. Although the price is a bit high now at least at my shop. When my gallon is gone I might not replace it.[/b]


did you notice a major differance in plant health or life quality when you added it to your lineup tom?

[StealthPanda]

Kochab if you want visible signs of improved vitality i suggest adding any kind of catalyst like yu said, they usually contain bat/seabird guano, earthworm castings, norwiegen kelp meal(there are particular kelps that actually shorten the node space on plants) sulphate of potash, and rock phosphate. But to actually gain the benefits of some of the things in a catalyst product it is key to use it every watering pretty much, from start to flush.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StealthPanda @ Jan 31 2009, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78469)</div>
Kochab if you want visible signs of improved vitality i suggest adding any kind of catalyst like yu said, they usually contain bat/seabird guano, earthworm castings, norwiegen kelp meal(there are particular kelps that actually shorten the node space on plants) sulphate of potash, and rock phosphate. But to actually gain the benefits of some of the things in a catalyst product it is key to use it every watering pretty much, from start to flush.[/b]


thanks buddy, you confirmed some of the thoughts that I was having.
however I didnt know that they key benifical factor is keeping it constant throughout the grow during its running. Now I know to order a bigger size jug so that i dont run out mid way when I aint got the dough to replace it....

What would you suggest as using for additives along with AN's base nutes? (their 3 part)

[StealthPanda]

Well first of all, i dont like three part sytems, its kind of not important to seperate the micro nutrients from the other macro nutrients, it is however more important in hydro so if your running that, i guess a 3 part isnt a bad idea, but this is just me. I would use AN Iguana juice in soil. Pure organics concentrated to act like a hydroponic nutrient(meaning yes you can burn a plant, but its still difficult.) Sound just up my alley.

As far as additives in a soil situation with any nutrient linup i pretty much have a failsafe list of products that will help you get that little taste of everything out of a grow..

First, a bloom booster, in soil, go for the one with a high p ratio, at a pH of 6.45(absolute PERFECT pH in soil) phosphorous is realativly imobile, and the plant does not use it as efficiently. As a matter of fact it is the only nutrient that is on a diminishing scale as compared to others, here this kind of gives you an idea of what i mean
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1256-images/B1256-3.jpg

See how the P is dwindling? Yes, a lower pH can halp to correct this, but micro nutrients become deathly toxic at this level in soil. So with all that said, get canna pk 13/14

Sweet leaf, it has ubiquitous amounts of beneficials, ranging from l-amino acids, b vitamins, yucca extract etc... The list goes ON

Piranha and tarantula, these are GREAT, very little is needed. Voodoo juice works very well too but is REDICULOUSLY priced.

Catalyst, like FoxFarm big bloom, advanced nutrients MET(bloom) Earthjuice(bloom), in soil, this is important to keep the soil itself alive so to speak, and readily moving nutrient salts through the medium, they can also shorten node length and flower times. However that is more dependant on the ammount of kelp. Usually a pure kelp item will be advertised as a plant flower hardener, as well as a good item for shortening plants as stated.

Hygrozyme, if you dont know what this does yet your out of the loop. :p

And for good measure, if you ever have the extra money get a bottle of barricade, it is some amazing stuff ill tell you. But it as well has to be administered at a contstant rate but with a little bit of ajusment, during veg, use barricade EVERY watering, duing flowering use it every 10-12 days.

Thats about it bro, alongside main nutrients there really isnt much you have to buy to get everything in there.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StealthPanda @ Jan 31 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78475)</div>
Well first of all, i dont like three part sytems, its kind of not important to seperate the micro nutrients from the other macro nutrients, it is however more important in hydro so if your running that, i guess a 3 part isnt a bad idea, but this is just me. I would use AN Iguana juice in soil. Pure organics concentrated to act like a hydroponic nutrient(meaning yes you can burn a plant, but its still difficult.) Sound just up my alley.

As far as additives in a soil situation with any nutrient linup i pretty much have a failsafe list of products that will help you get that little taste of everything out of a grow..

First, a bloom booster, in soil, go for the one with a high p ratio, at a pH of 6.45(absolute PERFECT pH in soil) phosphorous is realativly imobile, and the plant does not use it as efficiently. As a matter of fact it is the only nutrient that is on a diminishing scale as compared to others, here this kind of gives you an idea of what i mean
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1256-images/B1256-3.jpg

See how the P is dwindling? Yes, a lower pH can halp to correct this, but micro nutrients become deathly toxic at this level in soil. So with all that said, get canna pk 13/14

Sweet leaf, it has ubiquitous amounts of beneficials, ranging from l-amino acids, b vitamins, yucca extract etc... The list goes ON

Piranha and tarantula, these are GREAT, very little is needed. Voodoo juice works very well too but is REDICULOUSLY priced.

Catalyst, like FoxFarm big bloom, advanced nutrients MET(bloom) Earthjuice(bloom), in soil, this is important to keep the soil itself alive so to speak, and readily moving nutrient salts through the medium, they can also shorten node length and flower times. However that is more dependant on the ammount of kelp. Usually a pure kelp item will be advertised as a plant flower hardener, as well as a good item for shortening plants as stated.

Hygrozyme, if you dont know what this does yet your out of the loop. :p

And for good measure, if you ever have the extra money get a bottle of barricade, it is some amazing stuff ill tell you. But it as well has to be administered at a contstant rate but with a little bit of ajusment, during veg, use barricade EVERY watering, duing flowering use it every 10-12 days.

Thats about it bro, alongside main nutrients there really isnt much you have to buy to get everything in there.[/b]


thanks a lot man. Sounds about like my thinking was on track except I was thinking of getting some other stuff to add in there just to make sure that I had a well rounded feed going.
I got to looking @ all the brands of nutes and such last night and it made my head swim FAST. Got to looking @ whats in each nute and couldent find a whole lot of information on that. Seems those fuckers want to keep us in the dark about what is in their stuff to me... And I dont want to buy 2 products if their main ingredient or main effects are to be the same (unless one is lacking in something else I particularly feel that I need.)

Im going to be buying nutes for another soil grow but it seems that everything you listed there should work pretty effectively as well if I decide to change up a little for another small hydro grow....


got any opinions on the bud xl product from H&G? Ive seen quite a few people swear by the effects that theyve gotten since starting to use it but I dont see how taking away stuff from branches and etc... can really add to a bud's health that much as it claims to do.

[StealthPanda]

Okay about bud xl, its good stuff, but its just a different setup of the same thing really. Bud xl is alot like advanced nutrients big bud. Which its funny is actually a bloom booster, in technical terms, a booster product with a lower pk ratio and l-amino acids as well as B1, it will put out the same buds as just using a higher pk ratio by itself, so, what my lineup does is includes the amino acids, not to mention make them more utilizable during the vegitative period, but a higher pk ratio as well, which is the biggest part of having good buds, dont skimp cal mag or sulpher, those are kind of like secondary nutrients, basically you need half as much cal and mag and sulpher as you have p and k.

So, it all depends on how you want to do it, and if im correct i figure my regimond being realativly easy to get, and not to heavy on the pocket book.

And as for the hiding behind labels, advanced is actually EXTREAMELY in depth, you just have to know the right place to look :)

For example
https://www.advancednutrients.com/advancepedia/listcats.php

They tell you alot about their products, but you can gain a plethera of good nutrient knowledge form scanning through the product descriptions. Sweetleaf is a good read, there are others that have nice little indepth analysis and telling you EXACTLY how their product is helping, not by saying its magical, but actually explaining it out, and you can actually look it up if you are hoving a hard time understanding or are just sceptical of the whole thing. I have found that they are 100% truthful in their scientific explanations.

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Jan 31 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78431)</div>
I lied Kochab I use LK too, pretty nice stuff....woops. Although the price is a bit high now at least at my shop. When my gallon is gone I might not replace it.[/b]


yes I did but remember I am coco/hydro. LK is real nice, same with the Organicare stuff. I also have used guanos like SP suggests and they are super cheap...look for sunleaves seabird/bat guanos to see what I mean. I also like Bud XL but I use the whole H and G line. I am getting away from mix and match nute lines to be honest with you. I also am not doing more than 1 or 2 plants in soil indoors anymore. I also use H and G's Algen Extract when vegging, and I have noticed a difference.

Remeber though I am pretty much hydro now though.

[chicken]

if you want a successful outcome every time, then you need to find a lineup of nutes and stick with it. for years.

constant changing nutes for bigger or better keeps you in a constant state of change. so when shit goes south, you can't put your hand on what went wrong. i have been running fox farms for 3 years now. and regardless of strain or phenotype, i can look at the plants and KNOW what i need to add or take away.

and it doesn't matter if you use ff or bio-bizz or canna or whatever. what matters is that you find something that works, and make it a constant in your garden.

organic teas will make insaneley healthy roots. they have all the shit yall are buying in there, to make healthy roots, and herds of micro-life in the soil. and chicken shit and cow manure is free. or very cheap if need to be bought.

constant change in a garden causes constant fuck-ups.

[StealthPanda]

If you followed my grow, and know how long i have grown, i think you might understand why kochab considers my suggestions. Not beacuse i have been doing this for years, but because i have done it for about a year, and within that time have learned how to maximize yeilds and potency. With very little in terms of supplys, not to mention a proper enviroment, or lack there of.

So i get what your saying, but i dont understand why my setup that works wouldnt work for anyone else...

I know what your talking is the truth, but there are simple ways to get monsterous yeilds with good buds to boot. All you have to do is see past it all and realise that the plant is alive, you can feed it as much as you want, but be carful you might give it a heart attack. And that you dont need a whole bunch of concentrated beneficials, you just need a little bit the whole time. beneficials work best if used throughout a grow, b vitamins and amino acids dont just move things into the plant, they potentiate a vascular system fit to move a semi truck.

using chicken and cow manure raw is kind of risky in terms of the bad guys outweighing the good guys in terms of bacteria and fungi, who knows, one day you will end up growing pot and shrooms at the same time.

[tom crudes]

I agree...except the shit will stink your house up.

[chicken]

composted manures do not stink, and will not grow mushrooms. and actually fresh cow manure doesn't stink once bubbled and fed to the plants. the heat from composting kills seed and spores and many undesirables. never sprouted anything in my buckets.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chicken @ Jan 31 2009, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78522)</div>
composted manures do not stink, and will not grow mushrooms. and actually fresh cow manure doesn't stink once bubbled and fed to the plants. the heat from composting kills seed and spores and many undesirables. never sprouted anything in my buckets.[/b]



I already use a compost pile for the basis of my soil. Im looking for things to help push that further along than what it is, as things can always be better suited to fit a plants needs.
Also Im trying to gradually steer away from the soil onto soiless mediums chicken. Adding one drop of poo to that makes it a soil medium again bro.
Consistency is important, but havign a well rounded well developed nute regiment is even more important to start off with;)

[tom crudes]

My bad I assumed it would smell chicken. I compost outdoors only cause indoors I do very little soil anymore.

[tom crudes]

Many ways none wrong if the outcome is good.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Jan 31 2009, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78540)</div>
Many ways none wrong if the outcome is good.[/b]

that is my opinion too. Ive found Chicken poo to be a great flowering stimulator in the past but Ive also burnt the plants to living shit with too much too far down in the soil and they got hit by it when they were getting to be nice and pretty....then the bud just tasted like ammonia.
Id rather stick to something I can use in any system if I choose to do so, as well as not have to worry about fucking something up and not being able to correct it easily way on down the road.

[TorturedZen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kochab @ Jan 30 2009, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78299)</div>
Going to pick up some Pk13-14 from canna[/b]
I'm just curious why you chose to go with Canna and not something like Hammerhead PK 9/18. I haven't used mine yet but from the research I did, along with some testimonials, it seems Hammerhead would be a better choice.

[StealthPanda]

Aha zen, here is what i was telling kochab about the soil ph effecting the uptake of phosphorous. It is actually more beneficial to implement a higher dosage of p in soil. There will be no adverse effects, only good can come of it. If he was using coco, or any other hydro situation, i would too suggest hammerhead.

[tom crudes]

LOL OK guys what about this, I used this before and liked it just fine

HYDROPLEX Soil Formula
Bio-stimulant Bloom Enhancer for Soil
0 – 12 – 8

Hydroplex Soil formula is a premium plant nutrient supplement designed to highly enhance fruit, flower, and bloom development in the reproductive phase of a plant's life cycle.

Hydroplex Soil Formula is desined for use in soil container gardens, as well as the ripening stage in soilless hydrogardening applications.

Derived From:

Hydroponics Formula - Ammonia nitrate, Potassium nitrate, Potassium sulfate, Phosphoric acid, Magnesium sulfate.
Soil Formula - Potassium nitrate, Potassium phosphate, Potassium sulfate, Phosphoric acid, Magnesium sulfate.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TorturedZen @ Jan 31 2009, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78551)</div>
I'm just curious why you chose to go with Canna and not something like Hammerhead PK 9/18. I haven't used mine yet but from the research I did, along with some testimonials, it seems Hammerhead would be a better choice.[/b]

I too thought about hammerhead. I was thinking of going with the canna because of a price differance on the site that I was looking @ getting it from.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StealthPanda @ Jan 31 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78552)</div>
Aha zen, here is what i was telling kochab about the soil ph effecting the uptake of phosphorous. It is actually more beneficial to implement a higher dosage of p in soil. There will be no adverse effects, only good can come of it. If he was using coco, or any other hydro situation, i would too suggest hammerhead.[/b]

Ive used gh 3 parts bloom formula in high amounts to achieve basically the same effects.
But if the hammerhead is so much better than the other products available for the same purpose in hydro or coco then Ill get it. I mainly want a well rounded nute formula so that I can use in soil OR hydro if I choose to do a grow with that.
Im mainly a soil grower because of the simplicity of it, however I do want to start dabbling in the hydro a lot more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Jan 31 2009, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78565)</div>
LOL OK guys what about this, I used this before and liked it just fine

HYDROPLEX Soil Formula
Bio-stimulant Bloom Enhancer for Soil
0 – 12 – 8

Hydroplex Soil formula is a premium plant nutrient supplement designed to highly enhance fruit, flower, and bloom development in the reproductive phase of a plant's life cycle.

Hydroplex Soil Formula is desined for use in soil container gardens, as well as the ripening stage in soilless hydrogardening applications.

Derived From:

Hydroponics Formula - Ammonia nitrate, Potassium nitrate, Potassium sulfate, Phosphoric acid, Magnesium sulfate.
Soil Formula - Potassium nitrate, Potassium phosphate, Potassium sulfate, Phosphoric acid, Magnesium sulfate.[/b]

It looks like its mainly made from these kind of chemicals tom
http://www.everybodysgardencenter.com/apri...nts+-+Chemicals (http://www.everybodysgardencenter.com/april/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=54&cat=Nutrients+-+Chemicals)

Actually if I had information on mixing my own nutrients I would buy a kit from these people and try my hand @ that. But Ive not been able to find any information on that subject other than books that are available for purchase.

[redman]

got any opinions on the bud xl product from H&G? Ive seen quite a few people swear by the effects that theyve gotten since starting to use it but I dont see how taking away stuff from branches and etc... can really add to a bud's health that much as it claims to do.
[/quote]
Ive been using the Bud XL and found it v. good. Trouble is I dont really have much to compare it to. All I know is that my 1st run I didnt use it,just pk13/14 for a booster. Nex run was with Bud XL and the yield went right up. How other bloom boosters compare is something Ill be trialing in my SOG set up.
This is a PPP and BB that was fed BudXL; Notice the servere yellowing as it strips all nutes/sugars from the leaf.
[attachment=15704:ppp_and_...a_bottle.JPG] [attachment=15705:ppp4.JPG]

Have thought about AN Hammerhead 9/18 instead of the pk13/14. Seems a much better ratio to me. Plus I had some issues with the amount of P it has. Leaf burning. And being immobile,compounds the problem. The BudXL contains micro nutes,aminos,vitamins,proteins,minerals and B vits. And it pertains to the organic production method.(EEC2092/91) Dont kno weather that makes 100% organic or wat. Spose so. Cost me £15 for 500mls. 1ml/litre.

[skunkushybrid]

I'm not sure ratios have much to do with anything... but the amino's in the XL will certainly help.

[skunkushybrid]

particularly this one: L Arginine

in terms of flowering that is... but all amino's help in some way or another.

[kochab]

Ill be looking foreward to that experiment that youll be doing redman.
I think Im gonna give the bud xl a try. If nothing else, too many people claim great results using it to pass on trying it @ least.

[StealthPanda]

I have an idea.


Use sweet lead up until week 4 flowering, then use bud xl, AND hammerhead. The buds will explode, trust me.

[kochab]

thats buying more products than I need to buy and reason why I was starting this thread, Im trying to avoid that.

[TetraHyC]

Want to make your own Ko ???

Look no further.
http://www.foothillhydroponics.com/brochures.php

Go snoop in the nute section.

[chicken]

composted chicken manure will not burn plants. neither will composted cow manure. and mostly now i bubble it in teas. i am gonna do a journal on some sadhu i got going. been feeding them worm casting tea, cow manure tea, and fox farm bloom nutes. they are black/purple looking green. i mean crazy green, with the prettiest white roots you ever seen.

pro-mix bx soiless mix, ff bloom nutes, and teas. the cow manure is fresh i am using bubbled in a tea. i will journal it all this week.

the manures have a lot of the stuff yall are buying to build up your soil/soiless mixes, in it already. all natural.

[StealthPanda]

You know after reading that H&G take on soft rock phosphate has definatly opened my eyes to something.

What would that be? It would be that AN mother earth tea is simply inefficient compared to Fox Farm big bloom. Becaus MET does NOT have soft rock phosphate.

And they pretty much perfectly explained how to achive forced purple buds... All you have to do is find a way to block sugas from leaving the buds... Usually cold weather helps with that...... Hmmm i think i am definatly on to something here.

[purplethumb]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chicken @ Feb 2 2009, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78914)</div>
composted chicken manure will not burn plants. neither will composted cow manure. and mostly now i bubble it in teas. i am gonna do a journal on some sadhu i got going. been feeding them worm casting tea, cow manure tea, and fox farm bloom nutes. they are black/purple looking green. i mean crazy green, with the prettiest white roots you ever seen.

pro-mix bx soiless mix, ff bloom nutes, and teas. the cow manure is fresh i am using bubbled in a tea. i will journal it all this week.

the manures have a lot of the stuff yall are buying to build up your soil/soiless mixes, in it already. all natural.[/b]


Hey Kochab, if your looking for a simple, low cost, and VERY effective nute regiment I gotta say chickens methods have been adopted and PROVEN by many growers as well as his own journals.

When It comes to nutes and soil this Chicken knows his shit! Maybe give his ideas a try in a single pot off to the side? couldnt hurt and it might surprise some folks

[kochab]

ive went the route of aged manures too. Just not my thing simple as that. I dont like collecting shit I dont like touching it either. It may be old and like dirt but its not, it still came outta somethings ass plain and simple.

I got a compost pile that I put healthy bacteria into and plenty of vegatables. Worms live just fine in it and plants do great with it needing very minimal nutes in veg, when it gets to flower they need more because its depleted. I got no where to store poop, but i do nutes. Hell the compost pile is contained to a deep freezer even.... If its your thing though, cool Ill never hassle you for it like you do for me using man made nutes.

thanks for the link tet. I thought you or Sp may be able to come through with something on that. You guys may want to keep your heads up for my next experiment.. I think you guys and skunk may all find it particularly interesting^_^

[purplethumb]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kochab @ Feb 2 2009, 05:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78934)</div>
If its your thing though, cool Ill never hassle you for it like you do for me using man made nutes.[/b]


You dont mean me do you? sry if it sounded like I was hasselin you wasnt meant that way......I use FF myself just wanted to say chickens method does work well

:friends: :drinks:

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplethumb @ Feb 2 2009, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78971)</div>
You dont mean me do you? sry if it sounded like I was hasselin you wasnt meant that way......I use FF myself just wanted to say chickens method does work well

:friends: :drinks:[/b]

no I was referring to chicken. I do know it works and said that, he just seemed to stress the issue even more after I said it wasnt my thing is all.

[kochab]

I do have this bookmarked if it makes anyone feel better though.
I do have some interest in the subject.
http://www.skunkskool.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry74148 (http://www.skunkskool.com/index.php?showtopic=3178&st=0&gopid=74148&#entry74148)

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kochab @ Feb 1 2009, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78934)</div>
thanks for the link tet. I thought you or Sp may be able to come through with something on that. You guys may want to keep your heads up for my next experiment.. I think you guys and skunk may all find it particularly interesting^_^[/b]

BTW this thread will come in especially handy for this...

http://www.skunkskool.com/index.php?showto...st=0#entry78973 (http://www.skunkskool.com/index.php?showtopic=3396&st=0#entry78973)

[TorturedZen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StealthPanda @ Feb 1 2009, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78878)</div>
I have an idea.


Use sweet lead up until week 4 flowering, then use bud xl, AND hammerhead. The buds will explode, trust me.[/b]
:Thinking: now THERE'S an idea. Who makes Bud XL?
Nevermind...I'll do a search.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TorturedZen @ Feb 2 2009, 03:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78986)</div>
:Thinking: now THERE'S an idea. Who makes Bud XL?
Nevermind...I'll do a search.[/b]

ah the powers of the great google.

[TorturedZen]

Hmm...$50 a liter. I'm thinking not.
Bud XL (http://www.plantitearth.com/stimulantsenhancers/house-and-garden-bud-xl.aspx)

[StealthPanda]

Well you have to take into condsideration a few factors zen, bud xl is highly concentrated, so you have to use very little, it lasts a LONG time.

Also, if you think about the possible yeilds they could return the expenses in the long run.

[kochab]

plus using it the way SP suggested will mean that you arent using a ton of it during the grow anyways...

[TetraHyC]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TorturedZen @ Feb 2 2009, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78988)</div>
Hmm...$50 a liter. I'm thinking not.
Bud XL (http://www.plantitearth.com/stimulantsenhancers/house-and-garden-bud-xl.aspx)[/b]
Works killer, $200 for 5l is what I get.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TetraHyC @ Feb 2 2009, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=79019)</div>
Works killer, $200 for 5l is what I get.[/b]



I dont even want to know what the nutes you called a small fortune costed you then...
Like really, its a scary thought. I know you already get 1 gallon jugs on most of them, and have been thinking of getting the 2.5 gallons....Damn my heads swimming now.

[chicken]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kochab @ Feb 2 2009, 07:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78976)</div>
no I was referring to chicken. I do know it works and said that, he just seemed to stress the issue even more after I said it wasnt my thing is all.[/b]

i was try to dispel the myths, that manure stinks, and that it will burn your plants. accurate info is more important than what you do with it.

[TetraHyC]

I not rich Ko, I can't go w/o Bud X-L, if you go though my J at RIP you'll see when DOC spotted the difference.
It's only 1ml to a liter last 4 weeks, so the 5l lasts a long time.

The Xtra Edge is a great deal.
Qt (any for mula) .... $12.95 . Gal. - Grow/Bloom ............. $24.95
Gal - Micro ........... $32.95 . 21/2Gal. - Grow/Bloom ...... $54.95
2 1/2 Gal - Micro / Hard Water Micro ................................ $69.95
Contains Silicic & Humic acids and Vitamin B1, in a Food Grade formula,
with chelated Micro-Nutrients. The natural silica promotes
fungal resistance in many plants. Each teaspoon provides about 275-
300 PPM of nutrient, per Gallon of Water. This is the nutrient preferred
by commercial vegetable Hydroponic greenhouse installations
in the Bahamas, and Puerto Rico.

$180 - 10% for (3) 2.5 gals. cheap bro.

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TorturedZen @ Feb 2 2009, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=78988)</div>
Hmm...$50 a liter. I'm thinking not.
Bud XL (http://www.plantitearth.com/stimulantsenhancers/house-and-garden-bud-xl.aspx)[/b]

H and G nutes are cheap, you have to look at the dosage rates, cheapest nute line I have used and that's a fact. You have to look at concentration levels before you say 50 a liter is too much...look at concentrations. I am a big fan of Botanicare, very expensive when you break it down, love it but it's too much. FF too much and IMO lacking in certain areas. GH is good but still more than H&G if you get all the bells and whistles IMO. H&G is top notch stuff and I buy it cause it's worth it and lasts forever. The big thing with nutes like I said earlier is concentration levels, and H&G has them all beat.

BUD XL is 4ml (3.8ml) per gallon, week 6 onward a liter will treat about 250 gallons of water for 50 USD. Botanicare is through the roof IMO, flowering is an ounce to 1.25 ounces granted it is only one part but still add all the bells and whistles and you dropped some cash.

[attachment=15745:hgflower.jpg]

[tom crudes]

Is Xtra Edge Cutting Edge if so I have eyed them up many a time, all the bells and whistles of that can be pricey but not as bad as Botanicare. I just have never used and want to stay with what I know, no more mix and matching for me LOL I was getting huge problems when I did but that's me. But I am very interested in it, the hydro store carries it near me, maybe if I get some experiment time I will go with it.

A gallon of Pro Blend Flower is about 45.00 for a gallon, try Botanicare with two 30 gallon resevoirs LOL one gallon per resevoir changes. Plus with H&G the price for A and B is a combined price, i.e. a liter of coco may be 30-35 USD for A and B. Not 70 USD. A little goes a long way, and I like the results I was getting.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TetraHyC @ Feb 2 2009, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=79047)</div>
I not rich Ko, I can't go w/o Bud X-L, if you go though my J at RIP you'll see when DOC spotted the difference.
It's only 1ml to a liter last 4 weeks, so the 5l lasts a long time.

The Xtra Edge is a great deal.
Qt (any for mula) .... $12.95 . Gal. - Grow/Bloom ............. $24.95
Gal - Micro ........... $32.95 . 21/2Gal. - Grow/Bloom ...... $54.95
2 1/2 Gal - Micro / Hard Water Micro ................................ $69.95
Contains Silicic & Humic acids and Vitamin B1, in a Food Grade formula,
with chelated Micro-Nutrients. The natural silica promotes
fungal resistance in many plants. Each teaspoon provides about 275-
300 PPM of nutrient, per Gallon of Water. This is the nutrient preferred
by commercial vegetable Hydroponic greenhouse installations
in the Bahamas, and Puerto Rico.

$180 - 10% for (3) 2.5 gals. cheap bro.[/b]


I think that I may go with them instead of AN...Thought about it and forgot about your thread on them again...
Glad you mentioned something. thanks!
I was already thinking about picking up a silica supplement as well just havent eyeballed any specifically. Sounds like the stuff is pretty concentrated as well if its as well suited as the % seemed then cant beat it for the price without mixing yourself.

I looked @ that last night too, coulda gave me the heads up on all the damn chemistry reading involved...I was looking for basic nute recipes to go by and alter as I see fitting when I got a bit more experience and understanding of it. I dont know much so I dont even really know how to tell how much is in what by one pamplets explaining that I read... Think I actually Knew LESS after that one. LOL

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chicken @ Feb 2 2009, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=79046)</div>
i was try to dispel the myths, that manure stinks, and that it will burn your plants. accurate info is more important than what you do with it.[/b]

I cant get cured/aged manures near me in small quantities without looking really odd from the farmers who supply it. I look like a 20 year old hippie to be straight up with you, and they know I am when they see me, so its suspect what its for where I live @.
If you buy a big load they dont care who it is or what for as long as its got a decent sized buck attached to it.
So I can only get fresh fertilizer here easily from the few friends I have with animals. And it takes too long for it to sit around and get cool enough to use

I found unaged chicken liter to work better as far as effects went than aged myself, I tried both before I got into reading to save efforts on what I did in grows, but it was the stuff that burnt the livin dookie outta the plant and made it taste terrible. Lie and learn
Guess I should have explained more, sorry for being so quick to jump yer shit ;)
I was breaking out in hives and outta bud, my fault.

[StealthPanda]

You know what fried the living dookie out of that plant kochab? A EXTREMELY high ammount of ammonium nitrate. Which is also the bad taste, in fact, isnt there urea in chicken shit? Urea is only usable in 100% organic crops due to its ability to suck the water from disolved minerals turning them into unusable salts.

[kochab]

cant hurt to try something new tom...if nothing else with one table to the side. If I remember right you got one to play with without taking too big of a hit...

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StealthPanda @ Feb 2 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=79126)</div>
You know what fried the living dookie out of that plant kochab? A EXTREMELY high ammount of ammonium nitrate. Which is also the bad taste, in fact, isnt there urea in chicken shit? Urea is only usable in 100% organic crops due to its ability to suck the water from disolved minerals turning them into unusable salts.[/b]



I didnt know that about the urea but did about the ammonium nitrate, looked it up after it happened... Now that I think about it there has to be urea in there..most birds piss when they shit more or less...
Its all like the song says bro...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vB3trWWGE&NR=1 hehe

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StealthPanda @ Feb 2 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=79126)</div>
You know what fried the living dookie out of that plant kochab? A EXTREMELY high ammount of ammonium nitrate. Which is also the bad taste, in fact, isnt there urea in chicken shit? Urea is only usable in 100% organic crops due to its ability to suck the water from disolved minerals turning them into unusable salts.[/b]


as for using the urea goes though, it was an all organic grow, testing fresh and aged poo from several varieties of animals. I found cow and horse to be about the same and not worth much IME, Chicken worked super well other than me frying her, as well as piggie poo.

I just tried some on one plant apeice in the same patch. Kinda dumb though cause the ones that did great in veg generally sucked in flower and vice versa so it fucked my yields. Decided I didnt wanna have to fuck with it anymore and started using chemicals all the way instead of trying to stay anywhere near organics for the ease...

[StealthPanda]

Pig manure is highly dangerous due to its pathogens.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StealthPanda @ Feb 2 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=79148)</div>
Pig manure is highly dangerous due to its pathogens.[/b]


I didnt know... Only things those pigs were fed was pretty much corn though would that have mattered?

[kochab]

$150 with shipping...not too bad...
this is what ive decided to go with for right now strictly because I can get it all @ the same place and not get raped too bad on shipping.... Going to pick up a few other things as time allows but this should be good for now
Hygrozyme
Size: 1 Liter

Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus - Cal-Mag Plus
Size: Quart

Advanced Nutrients Hammerhead - Hammerhead
Size: 1 Liter

Advanced Nutrients Grow, Micro, Bloom - 3 Pack Combo
Size: 1 Liter

[TetraHyC]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kochab @ Feb 5 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=80151)</div>
$150 with shipping...not too bad...
this is what ive decided to go with for right now strictly because I can get it all @ the same place and not get raped too bad on shipping.... Going to pick up a few other things as time allows but this should be good for now
Hygrozyme
Size: 1 Liter

Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus - Cal-Mag Plus
Size: Quart

Advanced Nutrients Hammerhead - Hammerhead
Size: 1 Liter

Advanced Nutrients Grow, Micro, Bloom - 3 Pack Combo
Size: 1 Liter[/b]
Where did you order from ??

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TetraHyC @ Feb 5 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=80178)</div>
Where did you order from ??[/b]


I havent that was HTG's prices for everything. Gonna look around a bit.
I checked out foothills hydro's website but I didnt see where I could order online.

[TetraHyC]

This cats prices are hard to beat, I shop here too, it's in town.
http://www.gchydro.com/

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TetraHyC @ Feb 5 2009, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=80182)</div>
This cats prices are hard to beat, I shop here too, it's in town.
http://www.gchydro.com/[/b]


Im checking them out, thanks.

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kochab @ Feb 5 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=80187)</div>
Im checking them out, thanks.[/b]


they dont have hammerhead:(

[TetraHyC]

That's odd, there's a blank product box too.

[kochab]

decided Ill pick up some Organocide too...azatrol costs a fuckin arm and a leg tet.:(

[kochab]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TetraHyC @ Feb 5 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=80191)</div>
That's odd, there's a blank product box too.[/b]

yeah I noticed that myself. Think they stopped carrying it or just ran out of stock?