A Smarter Way to Deal with Pot than arresting 20M people

[Your Grandfather]

According to a new report released by the Centers for Disease Control, fewer Americans are smoking cigarettes than at any time in modern history. "The number of U.S. adults who smoke has dropped below 20 percent for the first time on record," Reuters reported. This is less than half the percentage (42 percent) of Americans who smoked cigarettes during the 1960s.

Imagine that. In the past 40 years, tens of millions of Americans have voluntarily quit smoking a legal, yet highly addictive intoxicant. Many others have refused to initiate the habit. And they've all made this decision without ever once being threatened with criminal prosecution and arrest, imprisonment, probation, and drug testing.

By contrast, during this same period of time, state and local police have arrested some 20 million Americans for pot law violations -- primarily for violations no greater than simple possession. And yet marijuana use among the public has skyrocketed.



There's a lesson to be learned here, of course. Tobacco, though harmful to health, is a legally regulated commodity. Sellers are licensed and held accountable by federal and state laws. Users are restricted by age. Advertising and access is limited by state and federal governments. And health warnings regarding the drug's use are based upon credible science.



By contrast, marijuana remains an unregulated black market commodity. Sellers are typically criminal entrepreneurs who, for the most part, operate undetected from law enforcement and are free to sell their product to any person of any person. Unlike tobacco, marijuana's packaging carries no warning label, and government 'education' campaign's regarding pot's use are based almost explicitly upon hyperbole, propaganda, and laughable stereotypes.

Is it any wonder why use of one drug is going down at the same time that use of the other is rising?

If federal lawmakers truly wished to address marijuana use, they would take a page from their successful campaign to reduce the use of cigarettes. This would include taxing and regulating cannabis -- with the drug's sale and use restricted to specific markets and consumers.

While such an alternative may not entirely eliminate the black market demand for pot, it would certainly be preferable to today's blanket, though thoroughly ineffective, expensive and impotent criminal prohibition.

[GarryFroker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (email468 @ Dec 2 2008, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62042)</div>
this makes far too much sense ... so far the government has not used any in the "war on drugs" http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/b]

Common sense and Government just don't go together. LOL

[tom crudes]

But money talks and that's a lot of Federal jobs created with that 60billion plus they get every year. Plus we can't lay off law enforcement LOL. Good post thanks

[ChatNoir]

What you say is good for people but bad for power mongers.

[skunkushybrid]

i recently watched the new zeitgeist movie. finally got around to it a couple of nights ago, and i'm still in deep thought on the venus project.

would the mindshift of the people be so great that we'd suddenly see an end to hate? to elitism?

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skunkushybrid @ Dec 2 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62101)</div>
i recently watched the new zeitgeist movie. finally got around to it a couple of nights ago, and i'm still in deep thought on the venus project.

would the mindshift of the people be so great that we'd suddenly see an end to hate? to elitism?[/b]
I don't think so, it's human nature to fight...also though we strive for utopia how happy would we be if we got it?

[sgtpeppr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skunkushybrid @ Dec 2 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62101)</div>
i recently watched the new zeitgeist movie. finally got around to it a couple of nights ago, and i'm still in deep thought on the venus project.

would the mindshift of the people be so great that we'd suddenly see an end to hate? to elitism?[/b]


I think so, it's human nature to love.

[tom crudes]

Good point Sgtpepper, but while agree with you I also agree that it is human nature to hate...thin line between and the whole duality of man.

[sgtpeppr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Dec 2 2008, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62117)</div>
Good point Sgtpepper, but while agree with you I also agree that it is human nature to hate...thin line between and the whole duality of man.[/b]

There must be some reason why your initial instinct was towards the negative. I'm sure you understand both points of view, but something made your first response lean towards the negative. Just an observation.

[tom crudes]

LOL not what you think, I just wantched the Penn and Teller Bullshit show on Utopia...unattainable and not realistic was the verdict, man fights and man loves BUT man gets bored LOL. No I am actually pretty positive except when it comes to the law and politics. And I prefer realistic over negative, cause negative to me is bad realistic is good LOL. I have a hard time being positive about the human race as a whole being loving and sharing and you know utopian...it's not realistic in the slightest. Also throw in man's quest for power and wham, Utopia can not happen. We can't even love ourselves, blah, balh, blah,yada yada yada

I prefer realistic over negative LOL. Like I said negative is a bad attitude, meaning I would have never agreed with you. Utopia is asking every man and woman and child to be unselfish, understanding, etc. we can't do that on the internet LOL and the world is going to come together and form a Utopia...

[skunkushybrid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Dec 2 2008, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62117)</div>
Good point Sgtpepper, but while agree with you I also agree that it is human nature to hate...thin line between and the whole duality of man.[/b]

but hate generally stems from money... if everybody was equal how could we hate?

[skunkushybrid]

the venus project offers a new model for society. the monetary system is the cause of all our troubles. the whole world is run on greed. it is said that we have the technology available today so that every human being would never need to suffer again. no more drudgery.

yes man gets bored, but we have much in the way of entertainment. it's not like we get bored and feel like killing somebody.

if everybody was truly equal and there was no such thing as money, i honestly think that our very way of thinking would also change.

[tom crudes]

Someone will want power, it's human nature....and some people like their money too much IMO. Trust me I would love to live in a world that was better, a utopia of sorts. But you mean to tell me we can all change? I don't buy it......that's all. I hope for the day and I wish for such a day but we're human for a reason....

[sgtpeppr]

Sure single individuals will want power and money...hence the federal reserve. But the whole idea is that enough people will be on the side of this "utopia" that they will overcome the power hungry people before they cause a problem. As for money....it doesn't matter how much someone likes it, if it doesn't exist anymore, that really isn't an issue anymore. I guess the same can be said for "power" as well, there will be no real power to control. So all attempt to do so would not accomplish anything.

You always point out that you would love to live in a world that is better or you would join a cause as long as a large group was involved....but then you say there is no way we can all change. How you do ever expect any change to happen if you continue to have this mindset? You cannot hope for one thing and also believe that it cannot happen. But your right, we are human for a reason....and that is because we are capable of such amazing feats as living a stress free life. It's as easy as a choice between fear and love. That's all, just a mental thought....no difficult physical tasks, no violence, no killing, just a choice to think one way or another. As soon as you choose a thought pattern of love you will see the world changing around you. It will be difficult for a while, you will be attacked by pretty much all of your closest friends and relatives, but that is because they are still in a thought pattern of fear. You can either help them to a choice of love, or you can allow them to go their own way. I have encountered both on my journey and both are tough. It all depends on how much energy you want to direct towards them. I did not start out with the intention of writing any of this, but here it is, so I hope you understand my observations and comments.

[skunkushybrid]

Got to agree with SP here Tom... you do seem to think that man is inherently(sp) evil. whereas what we're suggesting is that money and greed are the roots of all evil. so if we take away money, and every single human being on the planet has everything they could ever need.. what is left to get evil about?

[tom crudes]

no I'm suggesting that humans are inherently HUMAN. Sure I want things to change and of course I pst about it, somethings are attainable some aren't in my views, asking human kind to change the ways they are programed is one. MMJ is medicine for sick people, I think that cause can happen.....there was a guy who tried to start a Utopia in the 70s, did it work? Nope a nbunch of people drank Kool Aid and died. Like I said there is a difference between human and evil.

[tom crudes]

And if you look at the way most of the world's money is distributed, the top 1% has it all and the bottom 99% isn't doing a thing about it now are they suddenly going to rise up. Who controls the resources in utopia? Also what about religion? How do we get rid of that?

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Your Grandfather @ Dec 2 2008, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62033)</div>
According to a new report released by the Centers for Disease Control, fewer Americans are smoking cigarettes than at any time in modern history. "The number of U.S. adults who smoke has dropped below 20 percent for the first time on record," Reuters reported. This is less than half the percentage (42 percent) of Americans who smoked cigarettes during the 1960s.

Imagine that. In the past 40 years, tens of millions of Americans have voluntarily quit smoking a legal, yet highly addictive intoxicant. Many others have refused to initiate the habit. And they've all made this decision without ever once being threatened with criminal prosecution and arrest, imprisonment, probation, and drug testing.

By contrast, during this same period of time, state and local police have arrested some 20 million Americans for pot law violations -- primarily for violations no greater than simple possession. And yet marijuana use among the public has skyrocketed.



There's a lesson to be learned here, of course. Tobacco, though harmful to health, is a legally regulated commodity. Sellers are licensed and held accountable by federal and state laws. Users are restricted by age. Advertising and access is limited by state and federal governments. And health warnings regarding the drug's use are based upon credible science.



By contrast, marijuana remains an unregulated black market commodity. Sellers are typically criminal entrepreneurs who, for the most part, operate undetected from law enforcement and are free to sell their product to any person of any person. Unlike tobacco, marijuana's packaging carries no warning label, and government 'education' campaign's regarding pot's use are based almost explicitly upon hyperbole, propaganda, and laughable stereotypes.

Is it any wonder why use of one drug is going down at the same time that use of the other is rising?

If federal lawmakers truly wished to address marijuana use, they would take a page from their successful campaign to reduce the use of cigarettes. This would include taxing and regulating cannabis -- with the drug's sale and use restricted to specific markets and consumers.

While such an alternative may not entirely eliminate the black market demand for pot, it would certainly be preferable to today's blanket, though thoroughly ineffective, expensive and impotent criminal prohibition.[/b]

Couldn't agree more, but they made a business out of the Drug War, and unfortunately for now money talks. Great stuff though and I would think most of us agree.

[Your Grandfather]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Dec 3 2008, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62277)</div>
And if you look at the way most of the world's money is distributed, the top 1% has it all and the bottom 99% isn't doing a thing about it now are they suddenly going to rise up. Who controls the resources in utopia? Also what about religion? How do we get rid of that?[/b]

Okay, you guys are pushing my buttons now. http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

As we all know, fiat money is just plain bullshit. No nation has lasted longer than 100 years based on fiat money and 1913 ~ 2013 is fast approaching. ::sidebar:: personally, I think we will have riots in the streets here in the next couple of years

Back on topic ~ I've been hording pre-68 quarters and other forms of silver coins for some years now, because when push comes to shove, all of those paper dollars that are being printed by the US and affiliates won't be worth the paper they are printed on (you betcha).

So, the other day, I stumbled upon this site and, personally, think it is freaking awesome. I'm joining the Lakota bank.

Hope you all enjoy.

http://www.opencurrency.com/

Jah

[tom crudes]

OK so we don't jack Grandfather's thread I started a thread on utopian societies and Project Venus right here
http://www.skunkskool.com/index.php?showtopic=2693


I agree with you email, and playing devil's advocate is not being negative in my eyes....how does the gov't make more money tax and regulation or a drug war? Answer the drug war, that is the problem with legalization in my eyes. It will also kill a lot of big business. The Feds. have 60+billion a year to fight drugs, roughly 20 million a year is used to promote MJ. So that's 60 billion vs. 20 million LOL, money makes the world go round and also is a key in developing certain policies i.e. The War on Drugs. I wish things would change but let's be real....how do we do it, make MJ legal that is?

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Your Grandfather @ Dec 3 2008, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62287)</div>
Okay, you guys are pushing my buttons now. http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

As we all know, fiat money is just plain bullshit. No nation has lasted longer than 100 years based on fiat money and 1913 ~ 2013 is fast approaching. ::sidebar:: personally, I think we will have riots in the streets here in the next couple of years

Back on topic ~ I've been hording pre-68 quarters and other forms of silver coins for some years now, because when push comes to shove, all of those paper dollars that are being printed by the US and affiliates won't be worth the paper they are printed on (you betcha).

So, the other day, I stumbled upon this site and, personally, think it is freaking awesome. I'm joining the Lakota bank.

Hope you all enjoy.

http://www.opencurrency.com/

Jah[/b]

I hear you Grandfather I am actually very against paper money, so were our founders. However I am seeing no rioting now and I am not seeing anyone standing up to anyone....we just had 700billion dollars taken from us and not one peep or one act of civil disobedience. When will people say enough and move on. Ron Paul promoted a form of money based on the gold standard and was laughed at, the people with the money run the world IMO.

[sgtpeppr]

No civil disobedience???

http://www.endthefed.us/

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sgtpeppr @ Dec 3 2008, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62350)</div>
No civil disobedience???

http://www.endthefed.us/[/b]

Are you seeing this in the mainstream media? Is it a mass movement? That's weird cause I saw nothing in Philly and saw nothing on the news. But thanks for the link, did you sign the bill? How about some real disobedience, how about a mass movement to not pay our taxes?

I always thought if Americans and their money were messed with that we would have all kinds of craziness...people are too cushy and comfortable IMO to do anything.....the bill won't pass I'll bet my left nut on it LOL.

Hit them where it hurts, money or rather a tax revolt. Personally I'm waiting for the shit to hit the fan, cause I'm angry and I like to hate the FEDs LOL. I wanna see some action and be part of it personally, in my mind that's patriotic....

Now playing devil's advocate does not make me negative....I smile a lot and I try and look at every bad thing as an opportunity and that's exactly what the bailout is IMO, a chance to change things. American big business has some motivation to change...i.e. developing new techs, going green, leading the world in the "new" energy etc. The only way to stop the madness in my mind is stop supporting the bailout companies like AIG and maybe the big three auto makers. They'll get our money but they better damn well change some of their products and their ways.

Grandfather what do you think will happen? I am assuming you are older and wiser than us, grandfatherl I am assuming with that name that you are a bit older. Do you think the fiat currency will change? What will we base our money on? I would also like to add that we are a young country and sometimes countries rise and fall quickly, IMO we are living on a reputation and we better change to remain a force. I am interested in what you think. I also agree whole heartedly with you on the Drug War, but once again I think something unrelated needs to happen for the FEDs to back off. That 60+billion is a lot of money and jobs for the FEDs and local LEOs. How much would we have to tax MJ?

[Your Grandfather]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Dec 3 2008, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62314)</div>
OK so we don't jack Grandfather's thread I started a thread on utopian societies and Project Venus right here[/b]

There is no hijacking of my threads because they are all Open Threads, it is not my decision to determine what someone writes, but rather to help the fine people who live here to engage in discussions.

Jah

[Your Grandfather]

Are you seeing this in the mainstream media? Is it a mass movement? That's weird cause I saw nothing in Philly and saw nothing on the news. But thanks for the link, did you sign the bill? How about some real disobedience, how about a mass movement to not pay our taxes?

I always thought if Americans and their money were messed with that we would have all kinds of craziness...people are too cushy and comfortable IMO to do anything.....the bill won't pass I'll bet my left nut on it LOL.

Hit them where it hurts, money or rather a tax revolt. Personally I'm waiting for the shit to hit the fan, cause I'm angry and I like to hate the FEDs LOL. I wanna see some action and be part of it personally, in my mind that's patriotic....

Now playing devil's advocate does not make me negative....I smile a lot and I try and look at every bad thing as an opportunity and that's exactly what the bailout is IMO, a chance to change things. American big business has some motivation to change...i.e. developing new techs, going green, leading the world in the "new" energy etc. The only way to stop the madness in my mind is stop supporting the bailout companies like AIG and maybe the big three auto makers. They'll get our money but they better damn well change some of their products and their ways.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Dec 3 2008, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62378)</div>
.....
Grandfather what do you think will happen? I am assuming you are older and wiser than us, grandfatherl I am assuming with that name that you are a bit older. Do you think the fiat currency will change? What will we base our money on? I would also like to add that we are a young country and sometimes countries rise and fall quickly, IMO we are living on a reputation and we better change to remain a force. I am interested in what you think. I also agree whole heartedly with you on the Drug War, but once again I think something unrelated needs to happen for the FEDs to back off. That 60+billion is a lot of money and jobs for the FEDs and local LEOs. How much would we have to tax MJ?[/b]

Tom, yeah, I've been around quite a while now. I remember the 50's really easy http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif But physical age is not a determinate of mental age. In my mind, I'm still a 20 something person. Given that, I have no better idea of what is in our future anymore than you, but what I can do is call upon what I've seen before and apply that to what I see now, because if we are to understand, we have to look to the past to see the future _ does that make sense? http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif I suspect we will see the darkest time sometime in late 2012 with a slow climb out from there. More than likely I won't be here to see the end, but you will and at that time it will be a changed world, far, far different that what we know today.

First of all, I think class warfare is being carried on here in the US. By that I mean, you hear people talking about how much the union workers make at the auto companies _ like it is their fault management is fucked _ but you don't hear a peep about how much the average person at AIG makes (not the bosses but the average person working at a desk, pushing paper). IMHO, this is classic Class Warefare which only serves to further open the divide between 'haves' and 'have nots' here. The middle class in America is pretty much gone. When I grew up, you could get a job at the steel mills, railroad, auto companies - find a girl, get married, raise a family, take a vacation or maybe 2 a year and 'have a life'. You wouldn't be rich, but you wouldn't be starving either. I'm afraid those days are long gone.

I suspect you will hear a lot in the upcoming year(s) about 'retraining' our workforce. To that I call Bullshit. Go ask the people in New England who heard that 40 years ago when the mills moved to the south and then to China.

Rather than going on a long rant here about a bunch of shit, I'd like to impart just one single thought to anyone who reads this. Invest in inflation.

I'll explain. Let's say a can of corn cost $.50 cents and you use 3 cans a month. Each time you go shopping buy 6 cans and stash the extra 3. Continue to do this until you know it is safe to stop (believe me you will know what that time arrives). By investing in inflation you will be able to hold your position when your friends and neighbors say the price of food, toilet paper and such have soared over 100% and their wages haven't gone up to keep pace. You will have the 'stash' of stuff which either has a long shelf life or never expires _ like the toilet paper. So take a look around, if you are married, the wife can tell you how many of what you go thru a month, and then double or triple down each time you go shopping.

Next, don't buy any new clothes for a year. You probably don't really need them anyway.

If you can, start collecting silver and gold coins _ these will be way, way valuable in a year or so. Do a google search and see which US coins had silver in them and when they were stopped minted. Look at every coin that goes thru your hands and capture those that have an intrinsic value. Did you know that the 'old' pennies (those made from copper) are worth $.03 cents in copper and only $.01 in paper money? The old quarters have almost 1/4 oz of silver _ which is trading today at $9.59. So you can either exchange 4 of those old quarters for 1 piece of 'fiat' money (money which is backed by nothing) at the local bank or take then to the coin store and get 9 1/2 pieces of paper money. Same goes for dimes, nickles, pennies etc. Learn which ones to keep and which ones are just fiat money.

Lastly, improve your ability to increase yield. I remember when a pound of weed was $3. hahahahahaha, Them were the days. Every time something like this happens the price of weed goes up. As growers, we are in the unique position to have additional income _ very, very discretely of course. In 1970 weed was $10~$15 per., by 1980 it was pushing $100 per. Today here in Chicago, $500+ for just okay stuff. If I wanted to sell the Purple Head Knocker, I could probably get $700 per, but I don't.

Rant off/

Jah, rastafari

[skunkushybrid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (email468 @ Dec 3 2008, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62285)</div>
it might also be a good time to mention the tactics police use to arrest suspected "drug offenders". Crashing through doors where families sleep, guns drawn, fingers on triggers .. when it would be far easier to just pick them up at a routine traffic stop.

They arrest us because we like drugs but they are the ones addicted to the adrenaline rush of crashing through doors.. guns drawn needlessly endangering both offender and their families alike![/b]

Yeah they love that rush alright... that feeling of power.

the police in my country recently got away with shooting an innocent man in the head, mistaking him for a terrorist. he was a Brazilian, and an ordinary guy. the fact that they murdered him is bad enough... but then for them to released of blame has to be the most blatant show of their power i've seen in recent times. ah except for them walking into the house of commons recently to search an mp's office.

[skunkushybrid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Your Grandfather @ Dec 4 2008, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62483)</div>
Are you seeing this in the mainstream media? Is it a mass movement? That's weird cause I saw nothing in Philly and saw nothing on the news. But thanks for the link, did you sign the bill? How about some real disobedience, how about a mass movement to not pay our taxes?

I always thought if Americans and their money were messed with that we would have all kinds of craziness...people are too cushy and comfortable IMO to do anything.....the bill won't pass I'll bet my left nut on it LOL.

Hit them where it hurts, money or rather a tax revolt. Personally I'm waiting for the shit to hit the fan, cause I'm angry and I like to hate the FEDs LOL. I wanna see some action and be part of it personally, in my mind that's patriotic....

Now playing devil's advocate does not make me negative....I smile a lot and I try and look at every bad thing as an opportunity and that's exactly what the bailout is IMO, a chance to change things. American big business has some motivation to change...i.e. developing new techs, going green, leading the world in the "new" energy etc. The only way to stop the madness in my mind is stop supporting the bailout companies like AIG and maybe the big three auto makers. They'll get our money but they better damn well change some of their products and their ways.


Tom, yeah, I've been around quite a while now. I remember the 50's really easy http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif But physical age is not a determinate of mental age. In my mind, I'm still a 20 something person. Given that, I have no better idea of what is in our future anymore than you, but what I can do is call upon what I've seen before and apply that to what I see now, because if we are to understand, we have to look to the past to see the future _ does that make sense? http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif I suspect we will see the darkest time sometime in late 2012 with a slow climb out from there. More than likely I won't be here to see the end, but you will and at that time it will be a changed world, far, far different that what we know today.

First of all, I think class warfare is being carried on here in the US. By that I mean, you hear people talking about how much the union workers make at the auto companies _ like it is their fault management is fucked _ but you don't hear a peep about how much the average person at AIG makes (not the bosses but the average person working at a desk, pushing paper). IMHO, this is classic Class Warefare which only serves to further open the divide between 'haves' and 'have nots' here. The middle class in America is pretty much gone. When I grew up, you could get a job at the steel mills, railroad, auto companies - find a girl, get married, raise a family, take a vacation or maybe 2 a year and 'have a life'. You wouldn't be rich, but you wouldn't be starving either. I'm afraid those days are long gone.

I suspect you will hear a lot in the upcoming year(s) about 'retraining' our workforce. To that I call Bullshit. Go ask the people in New England who heard that 40 years ago when the mills moved to the south and then to China.

Rather than going on a long rant here about a bunch of shit, I'd like to impart just one single thought to anyone who reads this. Invest in inflation.

I'll explain. Let's say a can of corn cost $.50 cents and you use 3 cans a month. Each time you go shopping buy 6 cans and stash the extra 3. Continue to do this until you know it is safe to stop (believe me you will know what that time arrives). By investing in inflation you will be able to hold your position when your friends and neighbors say the price of food, toilet paper and such have soared over 100% and their wages haven't gone up to keep pace. You will have the 'stash' of stuff which either has a long shelf life or never expires _ like the toilet paper. So take a look around, if you are married, the wife can tell you how many of what you go thru a month, and then double or triple down each time you go shopping.

Next, don't buy any new clothes for a year. You probably don't really need them anyway.

If you can, start collecting silver and gold coins _ these will be way, way valuable in a year or so. Do a google search and see which US coins had silver in them and when they were stopped minted. Look at every coin that goes thru your hands and capture those that have an intrinsic value. Did you know that the 'old' pennies (those made from copper) are worth $.03 cents in copper and only $.01 in paper money? The old quarters have almost 1/4 oz of silver _ which is trading today at $9.59. So you can either exchange 4 of those old quarters for 1 piece of 'fiat' money (money which is backed by nothing) at the local bank or take then to the coin store and get 9 1/2 pieces of paper money. Same goes for dimes, nickles, pennies etc. Learn which ones to keep and which ones are just fiat money.

Lastly, improve your ability to increase yield. I remember when a pound of weed was $3. hahahahahaha, Them were the days. Every time something like this happens the price of weed goes up. As growers, we are in the unique position to have additional income _ very, very discretely of course. In 1970 weed was $10~$15 per., by 1980 it was pushing $100 per. Today here in Chicago, $500+ for just okay stuff. If I wanted to sell the Purple Head Knocker, I could probably get $700 per, but I don't.

Rant off/

Jah, rastafari[/b]

I've already had this figured out for a while... i remember a few months ago when the £ was real strong against the $ if i had a lot of money i would have bought loads of $'s. but aside from buying gold, which will also go up soon. now is the time, if you got money (I haven't) now is the time to be buying gold, silver etc. everything is going down in price and you can bet it will rise again quickly.

conversely weed is sky rocketing in price. a buddy of mine showed me a £10 bag he bought and it was disgusting. bud is really hitting highs. skunk is the same price now as it was in the late http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mega_shok.gif's...

[Your Grandfather]

Rant On/

While New York reels from the most severe budget crisis since the Great Depression, Gov. David A. Paterson and the legislature are scrambling to close ever-expanding deficits. "We're not going to get out of this quagmire we've built until we reduce our spending," said the governor during a Nov. 12 press conference.

Precisely. So let's stop spending over $500 million every year on ineffective and wasteful policies like the Rockefeller Drug Laws. The Rockefeller Drug Laws represent not just bad, expensive policy, but a misguided and ineffective regime for addressing drug use and addiction -- health issues, not criminal issues. Imagine if we incarcerated people for being addicted to cigarettes or for having diabetes.

Contrary to their stated purpose, these laws do little to reduce the availability of drugs or drug use in New York. They did not stop the crack epidemic of the 1980s. They are completely incapable of stemming the accidental drug overdose epidemic hitting New York City and Long Island today. And they have turned the Department of Corrections into the largest, most costly and ineffective treatment provider in the state.

So maybe it is time to start the discussion with our friends and neighbors as to why we are spending these vast amount of funds for people who do nothing more than eat doritos and oreo's! Ever hear of a pot crazed person committing a robbery, murder, rape? The reason is, the local municipalities are addicted to the money they keep when they lock someone up, seize their assets and sell them. It's all about money people. hello.

Rant off/

[sgtpeppr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Your Grandfather @ Dec 4 2008, 03:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62483)</div>
Tom, yeah, I've been around quite a while now. I remember the 50's really easy http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif But physical age is not a determinate of mental age. In my mind, I'm still a 20 something person. Given that, I have no better idea of what is in our future anymore than you, but what I can do is call upon what I've seen before and apply that to what I see now, because if we are to understand, we have to look to the past to see the future _ does that make sense? http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif I suspect we will see the darkest time sometime in late 2012 with a slow climb out from there. More than likely I won't be here to see the end, but you will and at that time it will be a changed world, far, far different that what we know today.

First of all, I think class warfare is being carried on here in the US. By that I mean, you hear people talking about how much the union workers make at the auto companies _ like it is their fault management is fucked _ but you don't hear a peep about how much the average person at AIG makes (not the bosses but the average person working at a desk, pushing paper). IMHO, this is classic Class Warefare which only serves to further open the divide between 'haves' and 'have nots' here. The middle class in America is pretty much gone. When I grew up, you could get a job at the steel mills, railroad, auto companies - find a girl, get married, raise a family, take a vacation or maybe 2 a year and 'have a life'. You wouldn't be rich, but you wouldn't be starving either. I'm afraid those days are long gone.

I suspect you will hear a lot in the upcoming year(s) about 'retraining' our workforce. To that I call Bullshit. Go ask the people in New England who heard that 40 years ago when the mills moved to the south and then to China.

Rather than going on a long rant here about a bunch of shit, I'd like to impart just one single thought to anyone who reads this. Invest in inflation.

I'll explain. Let's say a can of corn cost $.50 cents and you use 3 cans a month. Each time you go shopping buy 6 cans and stash the extra 3. Continue to do this until you know it is safe to stop (believe me you will know what that time arrives). By investing in inflation you will be able to hold your position when your friends and neighbors say the price of food, toilet paper and such have soared over 100% and their wages haven't gone up to keep pace. You will have the 'stash' of stuff which either has a long shelf life or never expires _ like the toilet paper. So take a look around, if you are married, the wife can tell you how many of what you go thru a month, and then double or triple down each time you go shopping.

Next, don't buy any new clothes for a year. You probably don't really need them anyway.

If you can, start collecting silver and gold coins _ these will be way, way valuable in a year or so. Do a google search and see which US coins had silver in them and when they were stopped minted. Look at every coin that goes thru your hands and capture those that have an intrinsic value. Did you know that the 'old' pennies (those made from copper) are worth $.03 cents in copper and only $.01 in paper money? The old quarters have almost 1/4 oz of silver _ which is trading today at $9.59. So you can either exchange 4 of those old quarters for 1 piece of 'fiat' money (money which is backed by nothing) at the local bank or take then to the coin store and get 9 1/2 pieces of paper money. Same goes for dimes, nickles, pennies etc. Learn which ones to keep and which ones are just fiat money.

Lastly, improve your ability to increase yield. I remember when a pound of weed was $3. hahahahahaha, Them were the days. Every time something like this happens the price of weed goes up. As growers, we are in the unique position to have additional income _ very, very discretely of course. In 1970 weed was $10~$15 per., by 1980 it was pushing $100 per. Today here in Chicago, $500+ for just okay stuff. If I wanted to sell the Purple Head Knocker, I could probably get $700 per, but I don't.

Rant off/

Jah, rastafari[/b]

As always, it is wonderful to hear your rants and point of view http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif I appreciate it, Thank You.

[tom crudes]

Yeah I agree I like everyone's point of views, makes you think more IMO whether we all agree or not. Speaking of sky rocketing budgets and cutting them I am seeing a lot of it here in my area. Last night I was wasting away surfing the net (imagine that) anyways I found an article about Law Enforcement Overtime and the budget. Basically the article explained how the city of Philadelphia spends about 100,000k a day for LEO's overtime. That is a day, most of the OT costs occur when LEO shows up at court. That's some serious cash. So I guess they might try and cut that back a bit, so maybe the sharks won't feed so much on the little fish. I have to believe some of these guys wouldn't bother but the OT is tempting so they might arrest or write tickets just to get some extra cash....just like we all have done from time to time. Also if you read the article it's not just the cops it's the system, I think it shows how ineffective and stupid it has become. Anyways I thought that might be an appropriate post here, seeing as a lot of the arrests and court time are being spent on drug offenders and also on people who smoke pot, pot isn't the same kind of drug IMO LOL. I also do some work in New Jersey, and here in this area of NJ I read in the paper this morning that they are cutting back by about 100k on their law enforcement budget, I don't want to reveal too much about where in Jersey but let's just say it's not far from Philly or Camden both high crime areas. Maybe if people keep the pressure on and are relentless this might be able to open the door for re-evaluation of the War on Drugs.

Jill Porter: Police OT in courts costs millions

By Jill Porter
Philadelphia Daily News

Daily News Columnist
II THOUGHT I'D heard wrong.

When I asked how much the city spent in court-related police overtime, the number was so staggering I thought it was a mistake.

For a recent two-week pay period, court overtime for police cost taxpayers - are you ready? - $994,148.

That's just shy of a million dollars for 10 workdays - almost $100,000 a day.

"It is eye-opening, isn't it?" said Common Pleas Court President Judge Pamela Dembe.

At that rate, the city could keep all the doomed library branches open for the $8 million it pays in 16 weeks for court-related police OT.

The city provided information about the pay period beginning Oct. 27. Some pay periods, particularly in the summer, cost less.

It averages out to be about $20 million in court-related police overtime a year.

That's a stunning amount.

Some of it, of course, is inevitable.

Cops are required to testify about their arrests and investigations at preliminary hearings, trials and other proceedings. Invariably, some will be subpoenaed to appear when

they're off duty.

"If you want a war on crime, it's going to come with an expense," said Fraternal Order of Police President John McNesby.

The most "aggressive" police squads - such as Highway Patrol, SWAT and the Narcotics Strike Force - work at night and will invariably be on overtime when they appear in court during the day, he said.

But everyone involved in the system, including McNesby, acknowledges that some of the costs could be cut.

As well they should be.




At 9 on a recent morning in the Criminal Justice Center, the halls are crawling with police who are . . . waiting.

They're chatting with each other, talking on their cell phones, looking over reports, sitting in silence. One of them has his head down on a conference table, napping, in the court witness room.

Mayor Nutter has said that the safest place in the city is at 13th and Filbert streets, where police fill the corridors at the CJC.

It's not their fault.

When police are subpoenaed, they have no choice but to appear and wait until their case is called.

It can be hours.

"You're going to have a long day," one police officer told me, rolling his eyes.

Particularly irksome is time wasted when judges are late getting on the bench - and some of them are chronic offenders, McNesby said.

One police officer told me of spending three hours in the courthouse - on the taxpayers' dime - while a judge celebrated her birthday and took the bench at 11:30.

Imagine the arrogance of that.




Deputy District Attorney John Delaney, head of the trial division, cited other issues:

* Vague arrest reports that don't specify which officer did what, so that all of them are subpoenaed rather than just the one whose testimony is necessary.

* The protocol whereby judges give priority to cases involving private defense attorneys, instead of to cases involving police officers on overtime.

* Court dates being set without knowledge or consideration of whether the officer is on vacation, or is scheduled to work days.

"It's a complicated issue that's not easily solved," said Delaney, who worked with a task force under the Street administration that instituted some cost-saving reforms.

He continues to work with the Police Department to find economies without sacrificing the administration of justice.

And while the mayor's budget cutbacks call for police to eliminate $8 million in overtime for administrative and investigative work, court overtime has not been targeted.

That's because it isn't under the sole control of the Police Department, but involves the courts, the District Attorney's Office and other independent agencies.

"It's one of these soups with so many spoons in the pot, it's very difficult to manage," Dembe said.

Everett Gillison, deputy mayor for public safety, said he's convened a subcommittee to examine the issue.

"My job is to try to assist all the stakeholders to say, 'What's a better way to do this,'" he said.

The problem is complicated by the fact that some of the stakeholders - the police who can use the extra money - "are very much in favor of overtime," Dembe said.

You can't blame them for that.

But there are larger considerations here than individual paychecks.

With the city sacrificing fundamental services - libraries and pools and fire equipment - it's obscene to squander taxpayers' money anywhere.

[sgtpeppr]

Greed...that's where it all starts. Somebody implemented these policies so that him and his buddies could make more money without actually stealing it. If the police had just been paid a reasonable sum in the first place, this probably would be such a problem. I'm sure there would be a couple people always trying to beat the system, but for the most part people only steal or take stuff from their place of work only when they feel unappreciated and underpaid. So it's greed on both sides that eventually lead to something like this, something that just becomes commonplace and part of the system....but god forbid they learn from it and try to revamp and fix it now.

[tom crudes]

I think a major part of the problem with revamping is that they are going to get crucified if the truth comes out.

i.e. people like my grandmother might start to realize that there aren't going to be more drug crazed maniacs on the street cause we changed our policies on the Drug War or cut back on LEO, a lot of Americans feed on fear and a lot eat up that fear to the point that they believe it eventually. For instance if I was to ask my grandmother if she remembers drugs being a problem in the 50s? How about the 60s? And did you become aware of them because you were personally exposed to them or because Tricky Dick made a big deal about it. They have to admit they were wrong about alot of things, and if they don't come out and admit it the truth will expose itself IMO. I mean the truth to me at least with MJ is, the prohibition has never helped anyone except the people abusing the system and making money off of prohibition. In fact it has hurt many many citizens, whether it be jail, disregard for our rights, creating boundaries that hurt people especially people who need this as medicine. I also think the martyrs will be known, the few who were brave enough to be the "body" for many of the sick who had the "heart" but not the physical means to take the battle to the streets to get their medicine (MMJ). Some of these "bodies' have been locked away for trying to help expose the truth.

The truth is going to hurt them on, it will just be one more trust issue with the people versus the powers that be...I honestly don't know how people can't see the true evil that has emrged and it's not the drug users or us pot growers, it's the people running the system.

[sgtpeppr]

The truth is what needs to come out. And there should be no opposition to it....but like you said, the people in power will never allow this to happen. So I guess we just need to change the people in power. I think a majority of the people have already conceded to the fact that they have been lied to at some point by their government.

[skunkushybrid]

I have always known greed is the root of evil... and i'm not religious one little bit... but the greed thing is very true.

as soon as the money system came into being, not just money but any barter system we instantly separate the human race. we get elitism, racism, facism all from that single event.

we have the power and technology to completely change society... now i happen to think YG is right. there is much tension in the world today. a simmering of resentment for the world they force us to live in. The poor are expected to take the most menial of jobs, essential slavery to keep their richer masters in the keep they are accustomed. this is where you get crime... criminals grow up without even realising what it is they are rebelling against. the poor are told that we need money to have all the nice things... some guys don't want to become slaves. it makes some angry and they'd rather take. of course in all the confusion it became far easier to rob from the poor, as the poor are less able to spend money to defend themselves.

To solve any problem we must first get to the heart of the matter. the heart of the matter in this case is money. so, we make everything free. it is either that or we desend into chaos... as we will not stand for the control. even without realising it people will feel anger as the control intensifies. their lies are too transparent and they must keep telling them to keep the control. yet the more they do it the more we see. so their control can only bring about chaos.

there is a better way... we just have to all become equal. is that so hard?

[sgtpeppr]

You wouldn't think so, but people have to have drama and make it difficult.....as we have seen so well in our own little community here. Everyone has some cause they feel is unjust and they want to fight against, but they only want to make thing equal for themselves. Ironically, this makes me think of how when the United States fought for their Independence from England, they did it on the pretense of all men are created equal....they were tired of being treated like second class citizens and looked down upon by people in England. They even wrote in the Declaration of Independence :

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Yet they themselves had slaves. They didn't like being slaves to a King and his economy, but felt perfectly okay with having people work for them without pay. Certainly not all of the people involved felt that way. Thomas Jefferson was opposed to slavery but he and the others were aware that if they tired to include that in the original Declaration that many other (mostly southern) states would not agree to it and would give them a difficult time in trying to pass the Declaration.

[tom crudes]

Good stuff I know here in the US we are brinwashed just like the rest of the world is. I also agree this country was started without being anything but a bunch of rich white guys who didn't want to pay taxes yada yada yada. But the doesn't mean we need to feel like it ruins it for us, can we make it right and eventually get this country close to the way it is supposed to be, or rather closer to the way we were taught....we can always make things right. LOL and yes it is one step closer to a utopia but that's a long ways away. But starting here is at least a beginning.

I personally was appalled that certain powers that be found enough time and effort to have things put on the election ballot that took rights away from people (gay marriage), when we are in the middle of a crisis like this, shame on them,very Unamerican IMO. Clowns like that we can forget about but there are some good peeps still here, I think LOL.

[sgtpeppr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Dec 4 2008, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62563)</div>
I also agree this country was started without being anything but a bunch of rich white guys who didn't want to pay taxes yada yada yada.[/b]

You got that from Dazed and Confused. http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I don't think they minded paying taxes any more than normal, I think it was more that in addition to paying taxes on products they were forced to buy (hence the Boston Tea party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party)), they were treated like red headed step children. The colonies were looked down upon in such a way that even if there were no taxes I think some sort of revolution would have eventually taken place. It was the same as now....some people were willing to kiss up to the king and do whatever they were told, and some weren't. As we all know, after a while people want to stop being told what to do. It is the same for every human being no matter where they live. You grow up and expect to be treated with some amount of respect.

[skunkushybrid]

as a child i remember thinking the world was safe and controlled... not by a god, but i had faith that mankind had everything sewn up. then as i got older i started to realise what i was rebelling against, that i actually wasn't antisocial... but that society is inherently (sp, i really should learn to spell that word if i'm going to use it so much) so.

The monetary system breeds antisocial tendencies. I just used to think it was greed, however watching zeitgeist has opened my eyes to the fact that it is the whole monetary system. while it is there, there will always be greed.

we need a massive upheavel, a massive shift in ideology to stop the dessent into chaos. I don't doubt that control will bring about chaos, to my mind it is cause and effect.

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sgtpeppr @ Dec 4 2008, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62576)</div>
You got that from Dazed and Confused. http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/b]

LOL Dazed and Confused wasn't the first place it showed up, it's an old saying silly. But if you do a lot of the research the men who signed that piece of paper declaring independence didn't want to pay taxes, they didn't want a lot of things but the wealthy landowners (lots of the leaders) did not want to give up something to some monarchy so far away...you need to remember to that travel back then isn't like it is now, the world was a bigger place back then. You are right also the Boston Tea Party was about what you say it was but that is directly linked to taxes and money and standing up to someone so far away. Cutting out the middleman allows for more capital, or an opportunity for us to make and sell our own tea...or make our own purchases. They wanted to cut out the king and the British system. I believe that happens a lot with colonies ruled by foreign powers. But a lot of the citizens had different reasons for fighting, same with the ones who didn't.

[tom crudes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skunkushybrid @ Dec 4 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62580)</div>
as a child i remember thinking the world was safe and controlled... not by a god, but i had faith that mankind had everything sewn up. then as i got older i started to realise what i was rebelling against, that i actually wasn't antisocial... but that society is inherently (sp, i really should learn to spell that word if i'm going to use it so much) so.

The monetary system breeds antisocial tendencies. I just used to think it was greed, however watching zeitgeist has opened my eyes to the fact that it is the whole monetary system. while it is there, there will always be greed.

we need a massive upheavel, a massive shift in ideology to stop the dessent into chaos. I don't doubt that control will bring about chaos, to my mind it is cause and effect.[/b]

I can relate even to this day depending on waht company I am in. Most people think my ideas or concerns are weird, but I think I see the truth just fine. I am not as "radical" or opiniated in real life, i.e. I'm not annoying about it and I can laugh it off. But here is where I feel comfy talking with you guys.

I realize a lot of the world has blinders on and I'm not anti social or radical persay....I think I'm rational and open minded, what's wrong with that?

[sgtpeppr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skunkushybrid @ Dec 4 2008, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62580)</div>
as a child i remember thinking the world was safe and controlled... not by a god, but i had faith that mankind had everything sewn up. then as i got older i started to realise what i was rebelling against, that i actually wasn't antisocial... but that society is inherently (sp, i really should learn to spell that word if i'm going to use it so much) so.

The monetary system breeds antisocial tendencies. I just used to think it was greed, however watching zeitgeist has opened my eyes to the fact that it is the whole monetary system. while it is there, there will always be greed.

we need a massive upheavel, a massive shift in ideology to stop the dessent into chaos. I don't doubt that control will bring about chaos, to my mind it is cause and effect.[/b]

I think you are right on!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tom crudes @ Dec 4 2008, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62612)</div>
I can relate even to this day depending on waht company I am in. Most people think my ideas or concerns are weird, but I think I see the truth just fine. I am not as "radical" or opiniated in real life, i.e. I'm not annoying about it and I can laugh it off. But here is where I feel comfy talking with you guys.

I realize a lot of the world has blinders on and I'm not anti social or radical persay....I think I'm rational and open minded, what's wrong with that?[/b]

Tom you are right on also.....there is nothing wrong with you, most people just are not enlightened enough, or do not understand. Don't take it personally, it's just easier to say you are weird then for them to realize they need to work on something inside of themselves. Small doses of truth seem to be best when dealing with these type of people.

[Your Grandfather]

Personally, I'm glad we are all a little bit 'weird'. http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I'm proud to be associated with and love the friends who have gathered on this thin raft.

I don't choose to walk down the middle, rather, I prefer to race to the edges, embracing all extremes, creating a oneness. My oneness. I want everything at the same time.

That is what makes us unique, our oneness. Pity the poor Japanese who grow up in a culture which stymies uniqueness, creativity and oneness. I wouldn't go well there.

Personally, I believe it us, people that I call "Peripheral Visionaries" or Comprehensive Comprehenders (which is a name I blog by) which will foster the change this world needs.

[skunkushybrid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Your Grandfather @ Dec 5 2008, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=62710)</div>
Personally, I'm glad we are all a little bit 'weird'. http://www.skunkskool.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

I'm proud to be associated with and love the friends who have gathered on this thin raft.

I don't choose to walk down the middle, rather, I prefer to race to the edges, embracing all extremes, creating a oneness. My oneness. I want everything at the same time.

That is what makes us unique, our oneness. Pity the poor Japanese who grow up in a culture which stymies uniqueness, creativity and oneness. I wouldn't go well there.

Personally, I believe it us, people that I call "Peripheral Visionaries" or Comprehensive Comprehenders (which is a name I blog by) which will foster the change this world needs.[/b]

Japan has a very high suicide rate... i remember watching a documentary on it once. they also did interviews with some japanese youths and they actually spoke of the oppression in their country. obviously it's not an oppression like in africa... but much more subtle. in the western world we are even subtler still, and we are lucky to have been born where we are, in relative context to the rest of the world.

we are also the most ignorant... yet we are the only ones that can do anything about it, as we fight the wars for our country with the deluded belief that we are benefiting it in some way. yes it benefits the system we have, but it does not benefit the whole human race. if we are to move forward we need to look to science fiction. haven't we always? the science fiction of today is the fact of tomorrow.

[sgtpeppr]

I'm am increasingly persuaded that the earth belongs exclusively to the living,
and that one generation has no more right to bind another to its laws and judgments
then one independent nation has the right to command another.

-Thomas Jefferson on the HBO miniseries John Adams